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#1 2022-02-15 09:06:01

aurelian
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 46

[proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

In a chat on #Utopia-MiningSupport channel some users complain about fraudulent use of temporary miners to flood the net and blocking minor miners of getting their reward. Maybe it's time to impose more strict regulations on CRP mining, as proposed by some users.

"The result is that all trustable miners will stop mining while the entire network will be driven by scammers", says one user.

One proposal is to block rewards for well-known PK keys.
[later edit] I just find out that no one can block a PK key from getting mining rewards.

I would propose to limit the number of miners per PK key (although this would not really solve the problem).

What is your opinion on this? Do you have some ideas to solve this problem?

Last edited by aurelian (2022-02-15 09:22:46)

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#2 2022-02-15 09:11:18

aurelian
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 46

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

The miners exist only to provide the Utopia network necessary to function. The reward a miner gets is only a way to say "thank you" for providing bandwidth.
This is very important. Miners should not mine only for profit. They need to understand that they are a mandatory part of Utopia. Maybe the reward should only be given for the ones that sustain for a long time the process, and with moderate number of miners per PK key.

Last edited by aurelian (2022-02-15 09:12:08)

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#3 2022-02-15 10:15:38

aurelian
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 46

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Other proposal by user:

Limit each PK mining capability to just 1. And don't let miner work if it's own utopia client is offline.
Thus, if someone wants to run 30K bots, force him to register 30k account and keep them online at the same time.

[later edit]
I would say even more: the reward should be different, taking into consideration the number of bots "feeding" on the same PK key. The most favorable reward should be for the PK key used for only one single bot. For two bots, the reward should be smaller. And so on. This way, Utopia encourages individual users and discourages large bot farms owned by companies or fraudulent groups.

[even later edit]
Someone came up with the idea of requesting 10 CRP in stake for every bot, on PK's feeding on more than one bot. This way, for 30K bots should have initial stake of 300 CRP. However, for only one bot, the stake would be zero.

Last edited by aurelian (2022-02-15 10:54:48)

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#4 2022-02-15 10:45:58

Spider
Member
Registered: 2022-02-11
Posts: 6

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

my idea is to report to AWS if the guy is paying for the resources or he use stolen credit cart, if yes it's a good think for the network 40K bot maybe 50% now but in the future the network will grow an get advantage on him

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#5 2022-02-15 13:29:24

aurelian
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 46

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Another point of concern is presented by another user:

"But what if 100 thousand miner robots are added in a few days? He directly receives 100% out of 100% of the share."

I think here is a real problem: the Utopia market takeover. These actions should be prevented somehow, by adopting necessary measures.
For example, there should be a balance between single-bot PK's and multiple-bot PK's, beyond what has already been proposed (see above). My opinion: multiple-bot PK's should be disadvantaged (in terms of CRP reward) in favor of single-bot PK's, until the balance is restored (over time, of course).

Last edited by aurelian (2022-02-15 13:29:53)

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#6 2022-02-15 18:26:48

aurelian
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 46

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Very interesting chat in #Utopia-MiningSupport channel. One user warned that Utopia must not share the fate of Bitcoin: today, Bitcoin is mined only by big farms owned by corporations and investment funds. Utopia must remain available for the people, so any regulations that ensure this target are very welcome.

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#7 2022-02-16 05:56:50

money_ranger
Member
Registered: 2021-11-11
Posts: 22

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Good work in reporting the salient points of the discussion about it. IMHO they all have at least some validity. While it may be unfair to for example block a VPS provider for the action of a single individual if it preserves the health of the ecosystem it may be a viable option. Ofc when the network scales and it grows drastic measures can be revoked. But a single person owning 50% of the network is not healty, moreso if there is suspicion it's through stolen credit cards this would put in a VERY BAD light the project even if its nobody fault. These claims are unverified but just rumors spreading about it are a very bad publicity. By nature Utopia is already open to attack as a harbour of malicious individuals for its privacy features, and the UUSD while its one of its greatests strenghts right now it surely is a major attack vector for a potential smear campaign.

All of the drastic measure are unjust and unfair but we also must consider the ecosystem is in its infancy and has to be protected. When it hopefully grows this would be if not a drop in the ocean and self-regulation should be automatic.

I repeat any drastic measure is against every principle Utopia stands for but letting it being undermined while its still in a vulnerable state is not a good course of action.

aurelian;1591 wrote:

Other proposal by user:

[even later edit]
Someone came up with the idea of requesting 10 CRP in stake for every bot, on PK's feeding on more than one bot. This way, for 30K bots should have initial stake of 300 CRP. However, for only one bot, the stake would be zero.

Should be 30000*10=300k CRP   And maybe its the fastest and easiest way to deter single huge farms with no actual interest in the project other that dumping it.

Last edited by money_ranger (2022-02-16 06:09:04)

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#8 2022-02-18 07:36:14

aurelian
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 46

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

This is my view: Utopia ecosystem is mainly built to provide serverless communication ensuring privacy at all levels in the ecosystem. Mining activity is just secondary as to provide more ways fot the network to expand. Thus mining reward should be in a balance as of encouraging honest users and discouraging dishonest users (who use some ways to maximize profit while lowering real network adoption). In my opinion, mining bot is not real network adoption. The only real network adoption is Utopia Client App.

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#9 2022-02-18 08:54:36

aurelian
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 46

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

I know that many people come to Utopia just for the mining, but this is the price to pay for the ecosystem to work. I totally agree.Maybe it is wise to take into consideration to balance the greed of some miners by lowering rewards of huge farms who work on the same account, while promoting individual miners (who have less resources) to boost Utopia ecosystem adoption. At least as temporary measure until the network is expanded. My opinion is that the miners do not reflect the real network adoption (individual), although the miners are a necessary way to boost network services and maintain anonimity and speed.

All the measures proposed above can bring some balance, and may be adopted all, or just some of them. All at once, or just gradually.

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#10 2022-02-18 17:09:42

UtopiaHell
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 30

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

aurelian;1664 wrote:

<p>I know that many people come to Utopia just for the mining, but this is the price to pay for the ecosystem to work. I totally agree.Maybe it is wise to take into consideration to balance the greed of some miners by lowering rewards of huge farms who work on the same account, while promoting individual miners (who have less resources) to boost Utopia ecosystem adoption. At least as temporary measure until the network is expanded. My opinion is that the miners do not reflect the real network adoption (individual), although the miners are a necessary way to boost network services and maintain anonimity and speed. </p><p>All the measures proposed above can bring some balance, and may be adopted all, or just some of them. All at once, or just gradually.</p>

I propose to track down all miners by keys or ip and block them for a limited period of time to enter the exchange, because we are tired of CRP price drop big_smile

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#11 2022-02-18 17:12:08

UtopiaHell
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 30

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

aurelian;1589 wrote:

In a chat on #Utopia-MiningSupport channel some users complain about fraudulent use of temporary miners to flood the net and blocking minor miners of getting their reward. Maybe it's time to impose more strict regulations on CRP mining, as proposed by some users.

"The result is that all trustable miners will stop mining while the entire network will be driven by scammers", says one user.

One proposal is to block rewards for well-known PK keys.
[later edit] I just find out that no one can block a PK key from getting mining rewards.

I would propose to limit the number of miners per PK key (although this would not really solve the problem).

What is your opinion on this? Do you have some ideas to solve this problem?

Of course, you should not have released the scheme to the public review soon people will swim.

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#12 2022-02-18 17:15:47

UtopiaHell
Member
Registered: 2022-02-13
Posts: 30

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Philosophical question, but these blockages should be decided by society, not by those who develop it and can still undermine Utopian dogmas that will be very unpleasant for those who created it.

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#13 2022-02-19 04:30:15

quan582520
Member
Registered: 2022-02-19
Posts: 1

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

I think it is advisable to reduce the influence of a few users who own a large amount of bots on the entire system. rewards will be distributed every 15 minutes, we limit the reward per person to no more than 10 crp. Create a reward system according to the number of participating bots
<500 bots get 100% rewards
500-1000 bots get 95% rewards
1000-1500 bots get 90% rewards
...
the amount of rewards deducted by level will be used to deposit into the system development fund or can be divided among participants with a small number of bots.

Last edited by quan582520 (2022-02-19 04:31:03)

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#14 2022-02-21 06:53:49

money_ranger
Member
Registered: 2021-11-11
Posts: 22

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

70000 threads i wonder where they come from. I repeat myself whether its true or not the RUMOR circulating right now is that those bots are from hacked accounts. How good it would be a headline like this on some crypto news outlet :

"The UTOPIA ecosystem, the crypto where block validation is done through Amazon hacked server accounts"

Whooo i'm gonna definitely buy that shit. Get a grip on reality, project have sunk for much less

This charade DOES NOT look good. The decentralized p2p project that has 50% of its network running on AWS. Miners Ran by people who doesn't care less for the wellness of the ecosystem. Let's imagine whats happens IF adoption increases, more people use the network, network load increases then for whatever reason those miners go down----->> the network shits the bed because i already saw ripple effects of node overload on my miners.
Those 35000 threads that now accounts for 50% of the network have larger uptime swings than a 13 yrs teenage girl.

Last edited by money_ranger (2022-02-21 06:58:25)

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#15 2022-02-21 17:11:28

Cromanes
Member
Registered: 2021-12-10
Posts: 316

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

aurelian;1589 wrote:

In a chat on #Utopia-MiningSupport channel some users complain about fraudulent use of temporary miners to flood the net and blocking minor miners of getting their reward. Maybe it's time to impose more strict regulations on CRP mining, as proposed by some users.

"The result is that all trustable miners will stop mining while the entire network will be driven by scammers", says one user.

One proposal is to block rewards for well-known PK keys.
[later edit] I just find out that no one can block a PK key from getting mining rewards.

I would propose to limit the number of miners per PK key (although this would not really solve the problem).

What is your opinion on this? Do you have some ideas to solve this problem?

You can try to make a fork considering all these problems that can cause problems with mining. But it should not be regulated by the developers, otherwise it violates the principles of Utopia.

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#16 2022-02-21 17:17:28

Cromanes
Member
Registered: 2021-12-10
Posts: 316

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

aurelian;1600 wrote:

Very interesting chat in #Utopia-MiningSupport channel. One user warned that Utopia must not share the fate of Bitcoin: today, Bitcoin is mined only by big farms owned by corporations and investment funds. Utopia must remain available for the people, so any regulations that ensure this target are very welcome.

This is not fair to those who are invested in this project to the full. After all, they will have all the functions of maintaining the blockchain. And this is a natural process, not a copy of the Soviet idea of tiering. Who wants opportunities, let them get off the comfortable couch and plow.

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#17 2022-02-21 17:21:26

Cromanes
Member
Registered: 2021-12-10
Posts: 316

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

money_ranger;1714 wrote:

70000 threads i wonder where they come from. I repeat myself whether its true or not the RUMOR circulating right now is that those bots are from hacked accounts. How good it would be a headline like this on some crypto news outlet :

"The UTOPIA ecosystem, the crypto where block validation is done through Amazon hacked server accounts"

Whooo i'm gonna definitely buy that shit. Get a grip on reality, project have sunk for much less

This charade DOES NOT look good. The decentralized p2p project that has 50% of its network running on AWS. Miners Ran by people who doesn't care less for the wellness of the ecosystem. Let's imagine whats happens IF adoption increases, more people use the network, network load increases then for whatever reason those miners go down----->> the network shits the bed because i already saw ripple effects of node overload on my miners.
Those 35000 threads that now accounts for 50% of the network have larger uptime swings than a 13 yrs teenage girl.

But we won't be able to manage or interfere in any way with this work because we would violate the match and plus we don't have access. We can only insist on a fork with a kind of voting system where it will be possible to block these bots among the miners. But so that it was decided democratically without violating the mate.

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#18 2022-12-05 07:02:07

capno1
Member
Registered: 2022-11-23
Posts: 5

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

I really don't understand mining very well. But I love this app, it brings and integrates many things that make me feel comfortable

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#19 2023-02-03 19:10:29

Camavinga
Member
Registered: 2023-01-06
Posts: 836

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

capno1;2026 wrote:

I really don't understand mining very well. But I love this app, it brings and integrates many things that make me feel comfortable

What app are you talking about, do you mean uTalk or utopia. Well if you don’t understand mining very well, it is better you learn about it before getting involved, it isn’t very difficult to learn about utopia mining and mine crp, just research about it and ask questions about the mining on utopia channels.

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#20 2023-02-03 19:46:13

joanna
Member
Registered: 2023-01-10
Posts: 2,736

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Camavinga;4534 wrote:
capno1;2026 wrote:

I really don't understand mining very well. But I love this app, it brings and integrates many things that make me feel comfortable

What app are you talking about, do you mean uTalk or utopia. Well if you don’t understand mining very well, it is better you learn about it before getting involved, it isn’t very difficult to learn about utopia mining and mine crp, just research about it and ask questions about the mining on utopia channels.

uTalk is not application but a forum, I believe the user was talking about the Utopia application client but he never clarify if he's talking about the mobile or desktop application client.

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#21 2023-02-04 17:35:47

full
Member
Registered: 2023-01-06
Posts: 1,451

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

joanna;4540 wrote:
Camavinga;4534 wrote:
capno1;2026 wrote:

I really don't understand mining very well. But I love this app, it brings and integrates many things that make me feel comfortable

What app are you talking about, do you mean uTalk or utopia. Well if you don’t understand mining very well, it is better you learn about it before getting involved, it isn’t very difficult to learn about utopia mining and mine crp, just research about it and ask questions about the mining on utopia channels.

uTalk is not application but a forum, I believe the user was talking about the Utopia application client but he never clarify if he's talking about the mobile or desktop application client.

Yes, there's a difference between uTalk and Utopia application client but when we talk about things that have to do with mining using the Utopia application client then the user is talking about the computer app.

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#22 2023-02-04 19:05:27

Camavinga
Member
Registered: 2023-01-06
Posts: 836

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

joanna;4540 wrote:

uTalk is not application but a forum, I believe the user was talking about the Utopia application client but he never clarify if he's talking about the mobile or desktop application client.

I know uTalk isn’t an application but a forum, the confusion comes from the poster who didn’t clarify what they were asking or talking about, uTalk doesn’t even have a mobile application version. I believe the poster was talking about mining, but i guess we may never know for real because it seems that person is inactive right now.

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#23 2023-02-04 19:35:53

Detroit
Member
Registered: 2022-12-27
Posts: 1,650

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Utalk is an amazing place to be. I have actually learned a lot. The utopia community is great. They have so many cool studs to look at. Also, they have things to uncover and enjoy them.

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#24 2023-02-04 20:47:29

thrive
Member
Registered: 2023-01-04
Posts: 2,191

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

full;4604 wrote:
joanna;4540 wrote:
Camavinga;4534 wrote:

What app are you talking about, do you mean uTalk or utopia. Well if you don’t understand mining very well, it is better you learn about it before getting involved, it isn’t very difficult to learn about utopia mining and mine crp, just research about it and ask questions about the mining on utopia channels.

uTalk is not application but a forum, I believe the user was talking about the Utopia application client but he never clarify if he's talking about the mobile or desktop application client.

Yes, there's a difference between uTalk and Utopia application client but when we talk about things that have to do with mining using the Utopia application client then the user is talking about the computer app.

You have a valid point cause the mobile application is still in the beta stage and also limited to some features. Besides, I have never seen anyone that uses it to mine the Crypton coins of the mining channel.

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#25 2023-02-04 21:32:13

joanna
Member
Registered: 2023-01-10
Posts: 2,736

Re: [proposal] New regulations for CRP mining

Camavinga;4621 wrote:
joanna;4540 wrote:

uTalk is not application but a forum, I believe the user was talking about the Utopia application client but he never clarify if he's talking about the mobile or desktop application client.

I know uTalk isn’t an application but a forum, the confusion comes from the poster who didn’t clarify what they were asking or talking about, uTalk doesn’t even have a mobile application version. I believe the poster was talking about mining, but i guess we may never know for real because it seems that person is inactive right now.

I know you know that but if i don't point it out you won't have realized the typo. The uTalk forum doesn't need a mobile application since it can easily work on mobile devices.

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